Female circumcision

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itsmecrazydad

Female circumcision

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Posts: 3279

07/22/09 00:00:59

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So as to not derail further another thread, I thought it best to start a new one.

Sub said: Lol CD.........You should probably know what you're talking about before you actually do.

Hundreds of thousands of male babies (probably millions) have had their genitals mutilated for Christianity. It seems to be losing it's popularity, but there is no way that it isn't mutilation. There is nothing in the Qur'an or the Sunnah that says that a woman must be circumcized. There are cultures that do this that are not Muslims too.

Red said:

Looks like you're so misinformed about Islam. Female circumcision?

Only males get circumcized in Islam. 20 million Arab Xians are also circumsized. And there's no law forcing them to do so btw, they just see it in the OT and believe they should do it as part of their faith, plus it's cleaner and helathier. Where does female circumcision come from?

I found:

	Name of Questioner	Ameena - Egypt
	Title	Islamic Ruling on Female Circumcision
	Question	As-Salamu `alaykum. What is the Islamic legal ruling concerning female circumcision?
	Date	01/Jul/2002
	Name of Counsellor	Yusuf Al-Qaradawi
	Topic	Acts akin to human nature

Wa`alaykum As-Salamu wa Rahmatullahi wa Barakatuh.

In the Name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.

All praise and thanks are due to Allah, and peace and blessings be upon His Messenger.

Dear sister, we are very pleased for the great confidence you repose in us and we really commend your apparent interest in having a better understanding of the teachings of Islam and the rulings of this great religion in all matters. In fact, Islam is a religion that encompasses all aspects of life and secures guidance and light for all mankind.

Before delving deep into the question of female circumcision, we would like to make it clear that "female circumcision" means removing the prepuce of the clitoris, not the clitoris itself.

As for the Shari`ah stance on female circumcision, it's a controversial issue among the Muslim scholars and even doctors.

In response to the question, the eminent Muslim scholar, Sheikh Yusuf Al-Qaradawi, states:

Actually, this is a controversial issue among jurists and even among doctors. It has sparked off fierce debate in Egypt whereby scholars and doctors are split into proponents and opponents.

However, the most moderate opinion and the most likely one to be correct is in favor of practicing circumcision in the moderate Islamic way indicated in some of the Prophet's hadiths - even though such hadiths are not confirmed to be authentic. It is reported that the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) said to a midwife: "Reduce the size of the clitoris but do not exceed the limit, for that is better for her health and is preferred by husbands". The hadith indicates that circumcision is better for a woman's health and it enhances her conjugal relation with her husband. It's noteworthy that the Prophet's saying "do not exceed the limit" means do not totally remove the clitoris.

Actually, Muslim countries differ over the issue of female circumcision; some countries sanction it whereas others do not. Anyhow, it is not obligatory, whoever finds it serving the interest of his daughters should do it, and I personally support this under the current circumstances in the modern world. But whoever chooses not to do it is not considered to have committed a sin for it is mainly meant to dignify women as held by scholars.

As for male circumcision, it is one of the obligatory practices in Islam. Scholars even hold that whoever finds that some Muslims have stopped practicing male circumcision should force them to revert to this Sunnah that characterizes the Muslim nation.


	Allah Almighty knows best.

Well, it looks like Sub and Red might not be seeing eye to eye with Allah. Or at least Mo.

Sub says there is no genetal mutilation, but xians do it to boys. Red says that it is required for islamist boys, but it isn't required for girls. Mohammed instructed to reduce the size of the clitoris. Good thing he didn't mean mutilate. Maybe someone can tell me what's the difference.

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itsmecrazydad

#1

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Posts: 3279

07/22/09 00:02:05

http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?pagename=IslamOnline-English-Ask_Scholar/FatwaE/FatwaE&cid=1119503543886

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BSSM

#2

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Posts: 1784

07/22/09 02:01:25

It's barbaric and it's torture - male or female mutilation. Seems to me that God or whichever deity must not have got it right in the first place if mutilation of the body is ordered.

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JustSub.homeandgardenfo...

#3

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Posts: 1709

07/22/09 08:00:45

I didn't say that Muslims don't circumcize their sons too. But why act like that is okay and yet there is something wrong with the custom of doing it on girls. Don't be such a hypocrite about it. Alot of the people who still do the female circumcision are not even Muslim. The Christian missionaries who convert some Africans have to work very hard at getting some of them not to do this to their daughters. I wasn't unaware of what you quoted CD. Neither was Red Prince obviously. But what is not obligatory is of no concern to me. It is a cultural thing and not a religious one. People were having it done all the time before Muhammad came along and said if they were going to do it, don't do very much. People who have done it for many generations are convinced that it is the right thing to do. They weren't about to stop doing it. It is very often the women doing it to their own daughters and it is still done regularly. Again, it has nothing to do with the religion. CD, I suspect you're not really interested in what is true. You just need something to make you feel better about your bigotry. Keep looking. This isn't going to count.

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TheRedPrince

CD

#4

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Posts: 290

07/22/09 08:09:52

RP: Thanks for sharing CD. I have a question though: Did you READ what you posted before posting it? OK, maybe I'll make things easier for you. Please re-read below:

In response to the question, the eminent Muslim scholar, Sheikh Yusuf Al-Qaradawi, states:

Actually, this is a controversial issue among jurists and even among doctors. It has sparked off fierce debate in Egypt whereby scholars and doctors are split into proponents and opponents.

However, the most moderate opinion and the most likely one to be correct is in favor of practicing circumcision in the moderate Islamic way indicated in some of the Prophet's hadiths - even though such hadiths are not confirmed to be authentic. It is reported that the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) said to a midwife: "Reduce the size of the clitoris but do not exceed the limit, for that is better for her health and is preferred by husbands". The hadith indicates that circumcision is better for a woman's health and it enhances her conjugal relation with her husband. It's noteworthy that the Prophet's saying "do not exceed the limit" means do not totally remove the clitoris.

Actually, Muslim countries differ over the issue of female circumcision; some countries sanction it whereas others do not. (RP: Note neither side FORCES IT. It's either forbidden by law or not). Anyhow, it is not obligatory, whoever finds it serving the interest of his daughters should do it, and I personally support this under the current circumstances in the modern world. But whoever chooses not to do it is not considered to have committed a sin for it is mainly meant to dignify women as held by scholars.

As for male circumcision, it is one of the obligatory practices in Islam. Scholars even hold that whoever finds that some Muslims have stopped practicing male circumcision should force them to revert to this Sunnah that characterizes the Muslim nation.

Well, it looks like Sub and Red might not be seeing eye to eye with Allah. Or at least Mo.
RP: Kindly refer to the holy Prophet Mohammad (PBUH) as such, as the Prophet of Islam, or at least as Mohammad. Muslims don't take lightly disrespect to God (SWT) or any of His messengers (PBUT). Thank you in advance.

Now about your statement, and after pointing out the parts you "missed" in your own post, again -though I'm sure you read it in about ten posts from me alone so far. Islam has two sources, the Holy Quran and the authentic Sunnah. Now that you've taken the trouble to google the topic, it might be a nice idea to do another search and show everyone the verse or the "authentic" Hadith that says a woman must be circumcized.

Sub says there is no genetal mutilation, but xians do it to boys. Red says that it is required for islamist boys, but it isn't required for girls. Mohammed instructed to reduce the size of the clitoris. Good thing he didn't mean mutilate. Maybe someone can tell me what's the difference.
RP: I hope now you understand what the difference is. And, oh, Xians are also circumcized in tens of countries. They know it's cleaner. I think you already know the Jews do. According to doctors, it's cleaner for both men and women as uncircumsized men are the number one reaseon for female Uterus cancer to women they have intercourse with. I guess it's a matter of who chooses to be clean and who prefers filth.

Even female circumcision -in the exact manner described in the above Hadith- is regarded by thousands of doctors as cleaner and healthier for women.

Need I say more, really?

And btw, I don't follow all messages on this group. I found this one by mere coincidence. So kindly point me to your messages addressed to me or my topics afterwards. Unless of course you don't want an answer

The Red Prince

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TheRedPrince

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07/22/09 08:15:15

BSSM wrote:
It's barbaric and it's torture - male or female mutilation. Seems to me that God or whichever deity must not have got it right in the first place if mutilation of the body is ordered.

Interesting theory. So should you develop a tumor -God forbid- you would consider cutting yourself open and taking "mutilating" the tumor a barbaric act? What if you were born with 6 fingers? And how about if your apendix explodes?

The Red Prince

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sandysmiles.homeandgardenfo...

Red Prince

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07/22/09 09:01:36

First, I would like to say that I am learning much from your posts. Thank-you. While you are no better in controlling your frustration than any other passionate poster, I find your posts, for the most part a pleasure to read.

Now, as to your comment about tumors to BSSM. That was quite bizarre. Are you comparing abnormal appendages, tumors and other malformations to normal healthy ones? I certainly hope not.

As to female circumcision, once again apples and oranges, for obvious physical reasons. I have to admit that I always thought that removing any part of the clitoris was done to ensure women didnt "roam" in an effort to give men peace of mind in their never ending quest to believe that "there penis is big enough" and to further assurance that their women are merely slaves to both child birth and tummy warming. It never crossed my mind that it was done for cleanliness...I intend to research this further. Perhaps my assimilation of the entire thing is misconstrued. Tis possible.

Anonymous said...

As a doctor I have an objection to both male and female circumcision. Male circumcision is for the sake of tradition and religion, not medical. When you weigh the risk to benefit, it does not pan out. Doctors are unwilling to do other needless procedures but when it comes to circumcision most of my collegues seem blinded.

http://clichegal.blogspot.com/2008/03/female-circumcision-barbaric-act.html (Warning content is rather distrubing and graphic)

Last Edited By: sandysmiles 07/22/09 09:09:54. Edited 1 time.

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TheRedPrince

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07/22/09 12:08:23

sandysmiles wrote:
First, I would like to say that I am learning much from your posts. Thank-you. While you are no better in controlling your frustration than any other passionate poster, I find your posts, for the most part a pleasure to read.
RP: Thanks Sandy. That means a lot to me. I'm only "passionate" with those who attack blindly. I'm more than happy to discuss pretty much anything with anyone who can support what they say with proof though, whether I like what they're saying or not.

Now, as to your comment about tumors to BSSM. That was quite bizarre. Are you comparing abnormal appendages, tumors and other malformations to normal healthy ones? I certainly hope not.
RP: By "healthy" you mean foreskin? It's as healthy as HIV! Maybe I need you to confirm that I understood you correctly before giving further reply.

As to female circumcision, once again apples and oranges, for obvious physical reasons. I have to admit that I always thought that removing any part of the clitoris was done to ensure women didnt "roam" in an effort to give men peace of mind in their never ending quest to believe that "there penis is big enough" and to further assurance that their women are merely slaves to both child birth and tummy warming. It never crossed my mind that it was done for cleanliness...I intend to research this further. Perhaps my assimilation of the entire thing is misconstrued. Tis possible.
RP: I love that assumption. I've heard the "slave" part before, but not the "penis big enough" part though. I doubt Arabs have that problem anyway.

Mind you the Hadith mentioned above says nothing about "clitoris". Muslims take Hadiths and verses VERY literally. I've heard this said before in Arabic, but also from someone without a source -just as in the above case- so I can't confirm or deny it. But the Arabic version I heard was something like "When Prophet Mohammad (PBUH) was asked by a midwife -not exactly saying what he was asked- he answered 'Do it, but do not exceed necessity' ". So until someone can give me reference to where to find this "hadith" I'll just stick to what I know for sure.

Please let me know if I can help with anything in your research.

Anonymous said...

As a doctor I have an objection to both male and female circumcision. Male circumcision is for the sake of tradition and religion, not medical. When you weigh the risk to benefit, it does not pan out. Doctors are unwilling to do other needless procedures but when it comes to circumcision most of my collegues seem blinded.

http://clichegal.blogspot.com/2008/03/female-circumcision-barbaric-act.html (Warning content is rather distrubing and graphic)

RP: I won't open the link since it's against my religion to watch graphic scenes. But as for the above underlined statement, I tell anonymous: Maybe they're not blind. Maybe you need to do a bit more of howmwork that's all.

Just through a very simple google search:

With HIV infection reaching epidemic proportions in parts of the world, scientists are searching for any method possible to help reduce infection rates. Most recently, a study was conducted to investigate the role circumcision plays in HIV infection rates. Given the fact that circumcised men are less likely to contract HIV than non-circumcised men scientists began to ponder other possibilities for circumcision.

http://www.eontarionow.com/health/2009/07/20/circumcisions-health-benefits/

There is some evidence that circumcision has health benefits, including:

A decreased risk of urinary tract infections.
A reduced risk of sexually transmitted diseases in men.
Protection against penile cancer and a reduced risk of cervical cancer in female sex partners.
Prevention of balanitis (inflammation of the glans) and balanoposthitis (inflammation of the glans and foreskin).
Prevention of phimosis (the inability to retract the foreskin) and paraphimosis (the inability to return the foreskin to its original location).

Circumcision also makes it easier to keep the end of the penis clean.

http://www.webmd.com/sexual-conditions/guide/circumcision

The Red Prince

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neelix

#8

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07/22/09 16:19:59

Interesting Thanks Red Prince.

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sandysmiles.homeandgardenfo...

#9

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Posts: 2662

07/22/09 16:32:07

Red Prince:

Thank you for appreciating my direct approach and my sense of humor. It gets lost on as many as understand it.

Now, I never claimed that male circumcision wouldnt help stop some sexually transmitted diseases. However, one could say that sterilizing all men would stop unwanted pregnancies as well. I'm not so sure what your point is.
Its still a horrendous way to achieve a positive result. You know as well as I do that many things come into play when we make a decision to do or change something. It becomes .....should it be done. The answer is very clearly, no. Perhaps instructing males on how to keep that part of their anatomy clean would be a hec of alot less severe than the current mutilation. But, having said all of that I believe that people who do circumcise their boys do it because they feel that it is the best thing for them. No parent deliberately hurts their child. No sane one, at anyrate.

As to female circumcison, its to bad that you didnt look at the link. There isnt much room for error on a females body and there is nothing difficult about keeping that area clean and disease free. Historically women are mutilated for the reasons I already mentioned and I truly believe that anyone who sees it any different is deluding themselves. I shall continue to pray for their daughters.

The really sad thing is most woman fall in love with a mans brain. The rest, the sexual aspect is a joyful addition to any couple who truly love and accept one another. What a sad thing it must be for a woman not to enjoy this wonderful part of life with the man she loves. Actually, perhaps sadder for the man. A woman will leave a man if his brains no good, a small penis she can live with. In the end there is no non religious reason for it. If I find a link that states otherwise I will not hesitate to post it. Until then why do you argue something that you know is untruth?

Do you really believe Allah condoned cutting a women just enough to make it count? What on earth does that mean exactly? The entire thought of that makes me quite ill.

One last difference before I conclude here is a males pleasure is enhanced by removing a foreskin. I don't speak from personal experience although I have on numerous occasions been accused of having some male parts, the penis was only indirectly involved.

A woman is left unable to feel anything. Am I the only one that sees this as more than outrageous? Come on Red Prince, what say you?

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legen14

#10

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Posts: 1067

07/22/09 16:57:15

SandySmiles

The really sad thing is most woman fall in love with a mans brain. The rest, the sexual aspect is a joyful addition to any couple who truly love and accept one another. What a sad thing it must be for a woman not to enjoy this wonderful part of life with the man she loves. Actually, perhaps sadder for the man. A woman will leave a man if his brains no good, a small penis she can live with. In the end there is no non religious reason for it. If I find a link that states otherwise I will not hesitate to post it. Until then why do you argue something that you know is untruth?

legen.
I dont believe for a minute women fall in love with a mans brains, and I dont think you do. women fall for men because they fancy them. then they try to figure if a man can support them.
Brains are incidental to money.

As to circumcision, male !!!!!,,who cares.
Female,,,,,as the bible might say, an abomination,,,, typical of a desert roaming people who dont trust their womenfolk...just a thought, why dont men have there knob ends chopped off, see if circumcision is highly prized then....

As to Red Prince, he'd support just about anything if was written in the Koran,,,,he pretends reasonableness, but he's just a snake in the grass...

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sandysmiles.homeandgardenfo...

#11

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Posts: 2662

07/22/09 17:08:35

legen.
I dont believe for a minute women fall in love with a mans brains, and I dont think you do. women fall for men because they fancy them. then they try to figure if a man can support them.
Brains are incidental to money.

You can speak for yourself and I shall speak for what I believe. As to what I think, I already posted it. Please don't label me with some brush that you think fits us all. You would be very wrong.
As to a man supporting me...LOL. Supported myself and was fortunate enough to marry someone who was equally as ambitious, so in the end we supported each other. You would be amazed at how many couples I know who fall in to this same scenario. In fact two good friends of mine support their husbands. Always have. Monetarily that is.

Support can take many, many forms, sometimes a women is better equipped in the money racket and often a man is. The times they are a changing, to bad you havent caught up. Money was never very important to me lengen since you want to know what I think. I repeat I fell in love with my husbands brain. I lusted after the rest of him. Lust goes away, love grows. Don't try to think about that to long as I realize that it may all be alittle over your head. Btw are you a single male?

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BSSM

#12

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Posts: 1784

07/22/09 17:31:35

TheRedPrince wrote:

BSSM wrote:
It's barbaric and it's torture - male or female mutilation. Seems to me that God or whichever deity must not have got it right in the first place if mutilation of the body is ordered.

Interesting theory. So should you develop a tumor -God forbid- you would consider cutting yourself open and taking "mutilating" the tumor a barbaric act? What if you were born with 6 fingers? And how about if your apendix explodes?

If I am in need of a life saving operation, of course I will have it. If some moron takes to my clitoris, he will be in need of an undertaker.

Operation = necessary. Female mutilation = a barbaric cultural atrocity.

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legen14

#13

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Posts: 1067

07/22/09 18:12:38

sandysmiles wrote:
legen.
I dont believe for a minute women fall in love with a mans brains, and I dont think you do. women fall for men because they fancy them. then they try to figure if a man can support them.
Brains are incidental to money.

You can speak for yourself and I shall speak for what I believe. As to what I think, I already posted it. Please don't label me with some brush that you think fits us all. You would be very wrong.

I wasn't labeling you, I meant women in general.!!!.

As to a man supporting me...LOL. Supported myself and was fortunate enough to marry someone who was equally as ambitious, so in the end we supported each other. You would be amazed at how many couples I know who fall in to this same scenario. In fact two good friends of mine support their husbands. Always have. Monetarily that is.

Well bully for you but now I'm talking historically, and by the majority of women.

Support can take many, many forms, sometimes a women is better equipped in the money racket and often a man is. The times they are a changing, to bad you havent caught up. Money was never very important to me lengen since you want to know what I think. I repeat I fell in love with my husbands brain. I lusted after the rest of him. Lust goes away, love grows. Don't try to think about that to long as I realize that it may all be alittle over your head. Btw are you a single male?
Very funny.
I'm glad women are standing up for their rights, and getting paid as well as men, and sometimes better,,, about time women stuck up for themselves.
I can never figure a man wishing worse of his wife just so as he can feel superior in some way or other.
Are you surprised that I'm not the chauvinist pig now....

And yes, I dont have anyone to nag me.... thank god.

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neelix

#14

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07/22/09 18:20:27

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TheRedPrince

#15

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Posts: 290

07/22/09 18:27:09

neelix wrote:
Interesting Thanks Red Prince.

Thank you for reading Neelix

The Red Prince

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CelticFaeryMom

#16

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Posts: 1829

07/22/09 18:36:33

Circumcision is wrong, be it for men or women. Proper hygiene and safe sexual practices (including abstainence) prevent the spread of sexually transmitted diseases (and others not sexually transmitted). Circumcision was a religious custom and current medical thinking states it is not appropriate unless medically necessary (rare). Anyone who wishes to pretend they are having their children mutilated for any reason other than religion/culture are fooling only themselves. Or perhaps it's just parents who are too lazy to properly educate their children in hygiene and safe sex?

Neither of my boys were circumcised. I thank God someone educated me before I mutilated my children. I am also thankful this is being done less and less.

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TheRedPrince

#17

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Posts: 290

07/22/09 18:56:00

sandysmiles wrote:
Red Prince:

Thank you for appreciating my direct approach and my sense of humor. It gets lost on as many as understand it.
RP: Oh I appreciate that more than you can think. If only more people would be like you

Now, I never claimed that male circumcision wouldnt help stop some sexually transmitted diseases. However, one could say that sterilizing all men would stop unwanted pregnancies as well. I'm not so sure what your point is.
RP: My mistake apparently. My point -if you're talking about the 2 quotes I posted- was simply to answer the quote you posted. If one doctor doesn't know why circumcision is important, then he needs to go back to med-school . My second point would be that this is what we know "till now". Apparently the medical community thinks there is more to it than that or they won't be exploring other benefits for the process.

Your argument isn't valid to me though, because the foreskin has absolutely no benefit -that I know of at least- and several dangers. In addition, it's cleaner to remove it. Unlike sterilizing all men which will result in world distruction .

Its still a horrendous way to achieve a positive result. You know as well as I do that many things come into play when we make a decision to do or change something. It becomes .....should it be done. The answer is very clearly, no. Perhaps instructing males on how to keep that part of their anatomy clean would be a hec of alot less severe than the current mutilation.
RP: Mind you hundreds of millions of non Muslims -including tens of millions of Xians in specific- conduct circumcision. My point being they must be seeing something "other than" religious commitment. I guess that would give you a better idea on the medical opinion. Also if you teach males how to stay clean -thank you - what about the diseases? Not only for men, but also for their women companions? I think not all men are filthy, yet the statistics show that countries with no male circumcision have a much higher rate of cervical cancer because even with men cleaning up the dirt, they can't do much about viruses or bacteria that is there.

But, having said all of that I believe that people who do circumcise their boys do it because they feel that it is the best thing for them. No parent deliberately hurts their child. No sane one, at anyrate.
RP: Agreed.

As to female circumcison, its to bad that you didnt look at the link. There isnt much room for error on a females body and there is nothing difficult about keeping that area clean and disease free. Historically women are mutilated for the reasons I already mentioned and I truly believe that anyone who sees it any different is deluding themselves. I shall continue to pray for their daughters.
RP: Not that there's much room for error on the males' genitals either , but personally, I have no opinion on this. As a Muslim, if I know for a fact that Allah (SWT) commanded it, I'll follow it. Regardless of how advanced we think our knowledge is, every science is changing by the minute. A couple of centuries back if you said the earth was round, you'd be called a lunatic or burned alive. Goes to show you how reliable science is. I have to rely on the only One who really knows what He's talking about. I know only One; Allah (SWT).

But since no one was kind enough to give me any sources to their claims on this Hadith, I can't really form any opinion about female circumcision.

The really sad thing is most woman fall in love with a mans brain. The rest, the sexual aspect is a joyful addition to any couple who truly love and accept one another. What a sad thing it must be for a woman not to enjoy this wonderful part of life with the man she loves. Actually, perhaps sadder for the man. A woman will leave a man if his brains no good, a small penis she can live with.
RP: Even according to the story the "hadith" -note the inverted commas please- says, it still means that female circumcision should be minimal and that it should not prevent the woman from enjoying sex. But I'm not sure everyone will agree to your "brains first" theory though .

In the end there is no non religious reason for it. If I find a link that states otherwise I will not hesitate to post it. Until then why do you argue something that you know is untruth?
RP: If we're talking about women circumcision here, then I'm not arguing at all. I'll put it clearly: I don't know. I hope that's OK. I'm not a know-it-all and I don't remember researching this topic so I can't really confirm or deny.

Do you really believe Allah condoned cutting a women just enough to make it count? What on earth does that mean exactly? The entire thought of that makes me quite ill.
RP: Again, I'm not arguing. I don't know

One last difference before I conclude here is a males pleasure is enhanced by removing a foreskin. I don't speak from personal experience although I have on numerous occasions been accused of having some male parts, the penis was only indirectly involved.
RP: I seriously doubt it .

A woman is left unable to feel anything. Am I the only one that sees this as more than outrageous? Come on Red Prince, what say you?

RP: On this part I do have "little" knowledge. If the operation of female circumcision was done foolishly, then what you're saying is absolutely right. Removing the clitoris of a woman removes the pleasure from her and by default her husband. On the other hand, I know many women who were circumcised and they're enjoying a happy sexual life with full sexual pleasure. So I guess this particular part depends.

The Red Prince

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neelix

#18

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Posts: 5493

07/22/09 18:56:55

Does sound painful for either gender.

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legen14

#19

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Posts: 1067

07/22/09 19:17:59

Red Prince

RP: Not that there's much room for error on the males' genitals either

, but personally, I have no opinion on this. As a Muslim, if I know for a fact that Allah (SWT) commanded it, I'll follow it. Regardless of how advanced we think our knowledge is, every science is changing by the minute. A couple of centuries back if you said the earth was round, you'd be called a lunatic or burned alive. Goes to show you how reliable science is. I have to rely on the only One who really knows what He's talking about. I know only One; Allah (SWT).

legen..
Find me some proof that people believed the earth was flat any time other than in the bible.... even the greeks measured the circumference to within two hundred miles...
Its an urban myth that people imagined the earth was flat two hundred years ago.

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TheRedPrince

#20

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Posts: 290

07/22/09 19:18:46

BSSM wrote:

TheRedPrince wrote:

BSSM wrote:
It's barbaric and it's torture - male or female mutilation. Seems to me that God or whichever deity must not have got it right in the first place if mutilation of the body is ordered.

Interesting theory. So should you develop a tumor -God forbid- you would consider cutting yourself open and taking "mutilating" the tumor a barbaric act? What if you were born with 6 fingers? And how about if your apendix explodes?
If I am in need of a life saving operation, of course I will have it. If some moron takes to my clitoris, he will be in need of an undertaker.

Operation = necessary. Female mutilation = a barbaric cultural atrocity.

No one's reaching for your clitoris, don't worry.

I was just interested to know what you thought. Now I do. Thanks.

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Female circumcision

Female circumcision

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